Quickie: Afghanistan
Just thought I’d mention that while the Pentagon, the SecDef, and the citizenry are demanding some action on the situation in Afghanistan, our President chose… well, he went with the snooze button.
At the very least, pull soldiers out while you him and haw (sp?) around, Mr. President. You are the decider, remember? Do you remember when you said that? Soldiers are dying while you teeter on the fence! Its tragic to lose them when there is a goal in mind, but senseless and criminal to let them die without a clear mission! I don’t give a shit what Bush did, and we can’t change it anyhow. Pull the fucking trigger one way or another.
Chris said,
October 20, 2009 at 9:28 pm
“At the very least, pull soldiers out while you him and haw (sp?) around, Mr. President. You are the decider, remember? Do you remember when you said that? Soldiers are dying while you teeter on the fence! Its tragic to lose them when there is a goal in mind, but senseless and criminal to let them die without a clear mission!”
*HYPOCRISY ALERT*
You stood idly by while our soldiers died for 7 years under Bush. Now, Obama wants a few extra weeks to discern the best course of action, and you cry “soldiers are dying?” Oh please. You’re partisanship (and that of every other Conservative, it seems) makes you completely transparent.
I believe the best phrase would be “grabbing at straws…”
regulusred said,
October 21, 2009 at 9:37 am
Do you remember when the Taliban fell and we fostered an attempt at free elections? I do remember that.
Do you remember casualties piling up and generals demanding more troops during the Bush years? I don’t remember that stuff at all.
The true hypocrisy was the Left’s insistence, including Obama as ring leader, saying Afghanistan was “the good war”, and the war we had to win. Now that its the war Obama has to fight, he cannot come to any conclusion. I thought this was the one he wanted?
Let’s also remember, very importantly, that whether or not anyone is a hypocrite doesn’t matter at this point. I strenuously disagree, but you’re dodging the issue when you simply claim that other people did whatever in the past. Obama ran on handling Afghanistan, and here’s his chance. He ran on doing it right, and getting it done, and all that partisan tripe. That’s why he got elected, right? Because he would do it right?
Chris said,
October 21, 2009 at 1:18 pm
“That’s why he got elected, right? Because he would do it right?”
And he is; that’s why he’s taking the time. Jumping to rash decisions and starting or staying in wars without reason are the efforts of Conservative administrations.
“Let’s also remember, very importantly, that whether or not anyone is a hypocrite doesn’t matter at this point.”
Of course, Red. When Righties are so obviously transparent, it just must not matter anymore. Pardon me while I go vomit.
regulusred said,
October 21, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Are you finished puking? Good. You hid behind supposed hypocrisy to gain cover for Obama not making a decision on a war. You didn’t answer the matter at hand, which is all I said. Whether or not anyone has been a hypocrite has no bearing on the decision, which is the only point I made. Stay with me.
Taking time for a week is fine. A month is probably fine, as well. This is getting on 7 months since McChrystal replaced Petraeus. The time frame is already extreme as hell.
You should also remember that I want to win this war badly, but can be okay with leaving. There are no easy answers in Afghanistan, unlike Iraq. The only thing I detest is the blood cost of going forward without a final say. I won’t roast most decisions the President could make, but waiting forever without absolution is a waste of life.
Chris said,
October 21, 2009 at 4:15 pm
“Taking time for a week is fine. A month is probably fine, as well. This is getting on 7 months since McChrystal replaced Petraeus. The time frame is already extreme as hell.”
SEVEN YEARS, you hypocrite. I’m hiding behind nothing, and I’m shocked that you can’t discern the err of your ways on this issue.
regulusred said,
October 22, 2009 at 11:11 am
Obama promised to be different, and so far he’s watching the situation get far worse while doing nothing. Supposedly, he was going to do this right.
Suggesting that I wanted nothing done in Afghanistan isn’t a fair assessment, since we’ve not visited that topic. It is classical liberal thinking to assume you know what is in my head, and transfer that to me without actually asking what I believe. I don’t suppose it even occurred to you to ask me whether I was happy with Bush’s Afghan policy? Its also quite unfair to say that a vote for Bush makes me complicit in his actions, the same way that the dark carousel of Obama’s policies aren’t necessarily 100% in agreement with you.
We visited this point in another thread (the candidate discussion), but its worth examining once again. This is the point that since you are so far from the opposing political party, its difficult to view the differences that take place inside my “tent”, for lack of a better word.
If you’re not interested, I won’t bore you with the details. Suffice it to say, I thought Bush’s second worst policy (maybe third, actually) was his mishandling/forgetting of Afghanistan. I only want to fight wars that we win as quickly as possible.
So let’s make sure we understand one another before lambasting putative viewpoints. You’ve heard more than enough policies from me that you didn’t expect to throw me at least enough rope to hang myself.
Chris said,
October 22, 2009 at 11:33 am
And did you support the entrance of the United States into Iraq, the country which served as the scapegoat for that which should have been attributed to Afghanistan? *waits to watch hanging*
regulusred said,
October 22, 2009 at 4:28 pm
I supported the beginning of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. I was also under the impression that we could muster enough force to handle each conflict. Whether that was true is still a relative mystery to me, as we maintained fairly well in Afghanistan while executing even the surge in Iraq. That said, there seemed to be plenty of military types warning of our being spread too thinly.
Based on the assumption I carried at the time that we had the forces to fight each front effectively, I supported both invasions. We have had long debates about why we went to Iraq, and I stand my my freedom enforcer view of our nation, meaning the WMD thing had and has no effect on me. (If that is the reason others jumped for the Iraq War, I don’t have any real reaction to that.)
I strongly oppose your sentiment that I ever viewed either war as a scapegoat. Left to run the show, I would have fought both with ferocious force, increasing the military in whatever way necessary to ensure victory in a timely fashion.
Chris said,
October 22, 2009 at 4:52 pm
“I strongly oppose your sentiment that I ever viewed either war as a scapegoat.”
Whether you viewed them as a scapegoat or not is irrelevant; you supported the entrance of the United States into both countries. It was clear from the start that resources useful in Afghanistan were being diverted to Iraq; that’s never been a mystery to anyone. Thus, the time for your outspokenness over Afghanistan was way-back-when, when the Bush Administration was diverting resources.
To have said nothing of the sort when it mattered is exactly what makes your current comments so hypocritical.
regulusred said,
October 26, 2009 at 9:46 am
That is flatly untrue. I was quite unhappy and vociferous during those times. I didn’t have this blog then, and I was a undergraduate student at the time. Your version of events in my life is skewed, at best.
I didn’t issue many press releases in those days, which may explain why you didn’t hear about it.
Chris said,
October 26, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Let me rephrase my comment, then, and we’ll see if you still find it flatly untrue.
“I supported the beginning of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.”
You shouldn’t have.